Minutes:
Councillor Cowling, the Leader of the Council, presented the following statement:
“The items for my Leader’s statement are included on your agenda this evening and I am happy to answer any questions you may have as each item arises.
In addition over the last two months I have attended various meetings about Devolution and that has certainly taken up a lot of my time. I have also attended a meeting with North Yorkshire County Council, Scarborough Borough Council and our LEP to have a first look at the results of the work that is being done on preparing plans to dual parts of the A64 - you will recall that our council contributed £25k towards the first stage of this process. I will arrange for these proposals to be available to all Members of the Council so that all councillors will have a chance to view the proposals and be able to ask any questions of the officers involved. It will be a committee decision if we wish to contribute towards funding the next stage. I believe that this work and improving mobile and broadband connectivity are the biggest improvements that this Council can help facilitate to achieve greater future economic success for the benefit of the whole of Ryedale.
The only other thing that I wanted to add which is exceptionally good news for the Pickering wards is the completion of the Pickering flood defences today.”
The following questions were received on the Leader’s Statement:
1. From Councillor Burr
“Whilst every Leader has a particular style I honestly feel that giving us a verbal statement directly in the meeting is not good enough. Could I respectfully ask that you provide us with a written statement within the Council agenda, like our previous leader Cllr Knaggs used to give us? This was much more appropriate and respectful of fellow Councillors to absorb the information that they need to decide on asking questions. So my question is, could we adopt a more businesslike procedure and have a detailed statement sent out with the Council agenda in the future? I do believe this has been asked for previously?”
The Leader replied:
“I understand that it's personal choice as to whether I even do a Leaders Statement or not, so I'll let you know.”
2. From Councillor Paul Andrews
“Will the auditors be instructed to interview Council Members including opposition Members who have opposed the use of Wentworth Street car park as a superstore? Will they also instructed to interview businesses who have been affected including and I emphasise, Fitzwilliam Estate?”
This question had been copied to the Council’s auditors, KPMG, and a full response from them had been received. A copy of this was circulated to all Members at the meeting.
3. From Councillor Paul Andrews
“What other modes of enquiry are available in which the community will have confidence and that must include a review of costs, benefits and affects of the decision to sell Wentworth Street car park with planning permission?”
The Leader replied:
“You've asked what other modes of enquiry are available in which the community will have confidence that must include a review of all costs, benefits and effects of the decision to sell Wentworth Street car park with planning permission? I've no idea what other modes are available. I'm sorry you don't have confidence in the auditors and I think even when you've read the response from the auditors to your concerns, I still don't think you'll be happy but whatever form of enquiry it would be this Council and therefore the public that would have to pay for it and you're going to say that he who pays the piper plays the tune. I'm afraid that will be the case whoever does an enquiry, so I don't think I'm ever going to be able to satisfy you unless of course Fitzwilliam Estate would like to pay for an enquiry. Then we might say that would be weighted in their favour.”
Councillor Paul Andrews then asked the following supplementary question:
“How about a Scrutiny Committee?”
The Leader then replied:
“I believe that is what the Scrutiny Committee are doing through the auditors.”
4. From Councillor Paul Andrews
“When will Members receive officers' comments on the documents I submitted, one of them in draft, to the Chief Executive shortly after the meeting in May of Councillors and officials of GMI and which I sent in their final form to all Members and the Planning Department on 14 July and these are the documents to which Members have received from me over the last few days. So when will I receive the officers' comments on those documents?”
The Leader replied:
“You've asked me when will Members receive the officers' comments on the documents that you've submitted. I'm afraid I can't answer that, you'll have to ask the officers involved.”
Councillor Paul Andrews then asked the following supplementary question:
“Can I have an answer from the Chief Executive please because these documents have been before her for a very long time?”
The Chief Executive then replied:
“I do beg Cllr Andrews pardon because yes he has pointed out these matters to me. When I looked at the documents I realised that they had been before the Planning Inspectorate in the body of evidence, I actually thought they had already been considered by the whole process and that we had already made our comments. I didn't think that there was anything new in there so I do beg your pardon and I will speak to you directly because I thought it was something that we had already done.”
5. From Councillor Ives
“Councillor Cowling you stated that you are working and consuming a lot of your time at the moment on devolution which I thank you for but would the Council leader agree with me that devolution is giving power back to local communities on an unprecedented scale and it is delivering a key Government commitment and it is to be welcomed?”
The Leader replied:
“I would absolutely agree with you that devolution is the best offer that local government has had for many, many years. It gives the opportunity for local people to take decisions on what it the bulk of the money that is spent in our areas and it is an opportunity that we should be very grateful for and snatch it with both hands.”
6. From Councillor Clark
“I fully understand why you don't want to do written Leader's statements and have them in the agenda. I have complete sympathy with that situation from your standpoint. It seem one way out for you. However, this evening you were reading out your statement, or part of it, or what applied to something later on and I wonder if we could have a copy of whatever it was you read out as your Leaders' statement?”
The Leader replied:
“The answer is yes.”
Councillor Clark then asked the following supplementary question:
“When?”
The Leader then replied:
“Now.”
7. From Councillor Clark
“Could the Leader of Council please inform me, so that I can inform Councillor Joy Andrews, of the total planning cost involved in the process towards the sale of Wentworth Street car park?”
The Leader replied:
“That will be a written answer, it's not something I carry about in my head.”
Councillor Clark then asked the following supplementary question:
“In view of the lack of leadership and the state that we have got into in relation to that process, not only should that be a number that she has in her head, it ought to be a number that will come out from her sleep. On that basis do you intend to get a grasp of the numbers in relation to the cost to the public or are you going to say in the future I'll let you have a written reply because I don’t have that number in my head?”
The Leader then replied:
“The problems around Wentworth Street car park are well known, you don’t put up for sale a car park or any other piece of land without incurring costs. There is a cost to this Council of dealing with planning applications but I suppose we can set a cost against that cost against the many thousands of pounds that GMI Holbeck have paid for their planning application. There is a long way to go yet with that issue. We can't ignore the planning application that sits on our desk and I'm sure the final figures, when we've got there will be made available to all members of this Council.”
8. From Councillor Paul Andrews
“Bearing in mind that the application proceeded on the basis of out of date figures, an out of date customer survey and that customer survey will now have to be redone, do you really think that this Council is ever going to be able to issue planning consent without this being judicially challenged again?”
The Leader replied:
“I am absolutely certain that if this Council were to grant planning permission for Wentworth Street car park that it would be challenged at judicial review. I am absolutely certain that if a Planning Inspector granted planning permission for Wentworth Street car park that it would be challenged at judicial review and I'm absolutely certain that if they didn't get their own way at judicial review they would go to the next level of court. So yes, wherever it goes, wherever the answer is yes to Wentworth Street car park, it will be challenged.”
Councillor Paul Andrews then asked the following supplementary question:
“Then don't you think it's time that the Council changed direction on Wentworth Street car park?”
The Leader then replied:
“That is a decision for this Council to make when it is in full possession of all the facts and the implications of changing its mind.”